Hey Guys, I am new to this forum and have a love for muscle cars. I don't have a big wallet but really would like to buy a car in the near future. I am looking for a second tier type car. Not a big all out muscle car like a GTO but a nice Lemans. Not a Chevelle SS but maybe a malibu. I think that is more my budget. What my question is, is what are the major differences besides just demand for 68-70 cars and 71-72 cars. There are some nice quality 71-72 cars more affordable for me than the 68-70 cars I find. I know that some say the end of the era was 70 but I would like to know what mechanically is different in the 71-72 cars that makes them less desirable? They have the same general appearance. I am thinking something to do with emissions standards and maybe HP declining numbers? How much of that is lore and how much is truth. Any info would be great. Thanks.

 

I'm with you in terms of going for a LeMans over a GTO. Basically same body, very different prices/values. If you aren't trying to stroke your ego, or just really attached to a particular muscle car, it's a great idea to go for a less sought after car with the same body. The down side of doing this is that if you put a lot of money into it (e.g. rebuild engine) you won't get it back out. If it's a low dollar car for you to buy from someone, it'll be a low dollar car when you sell it to someone else.

What's the difference between 68-70 and 71-72 cars? The number one thing is compression. The pre-70 cars often had 11:1 compression. By 70 the number was down to 10:1. And it dropped quite a bit around 71, when it was down to 8:1. Lower compression = lower power.

In 1972 the big 3 started to measure horsepower (and torque) in SAE net - rather than gross - horses. Between 71 and 72, you basically chopped 15% of the specs. But it is just on paper (the SAME engine in 71 that was classified as 300 hp was classified as around 250 in 72). You want to boast about having a lot of power? Get a pre-72 and you can add 15% to whatever the number is.

Now, here are some advantages to getting a 73: 1) lower compression means being able to run regular 87 octane gas. No premium, no octane boosters. 2) By 73, most engines had hardened valve seals, which means that lead did not need to be used as a lubricant. No lead substitute.

In 74 (I believe) you were running a smog pump, which robbed 15% more of your power). By 75, you had catalytic converters, and most cars lost their powerful dual exhausts.

In California, if you buy a 76 or later, you have to pass smog.

In addition to the body make/model, I'd be looking at the power train (e.g. GM 455 with a TH-400 trans and a posi rear end). If you start out with a desirable package, you can improve from there.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the quick response and the great information. You answered a lot of questions I had. When I was younger my parents had a 68 Lemans and a 70 Lemans Sport at the same time. I loved those cars. This is one of the reasons for my search to begin looking for something fun. Of course I would love to go all the way into a GTO but from what I have seen a good solid driver is above 20-25K. I am not looking to race the car so all out speed is not that important to me. Which is why I like the Lemans cars. Same look and I would have to say it would probably put a big smile on my face even with a small block. I definately understand how a car like this can eat up some money that you will probably never get back out of the car like you might with a GTO or other desireable model. I am probably looking to spend in the 10K range for a good driver/solid car. I do not want a convertable but a 4 speed would be a bonus.I don't know what my chances are of finding something for that kind of money but I will start looking.

 

Slamlic,
You ought to be able to get a great car for $10k. It doesn't sound like "omigosh-power" is what you're looking for, or even "please-please-look-at-me-I-drive-a-____." You're looking for a cool cruising car.

Two suggestions. First of all, I'd go for cubic inches. Why? There are 350s that get more horsepower than big blocks. But size generally translates into torque, and torque - unlike horsepower, which needs rpms to become effective - is simply always "there"; i.e. it's present throughout the powerbrand. Google "advantages" and "big block" and see what you get.

2) Seriously consider eBay. I've found eBay to be a great source for a great deal. Cars sell for considerably less because they're only on the "market" for a week and because you usually can't have mechanics inspections. But quite a bit of the time they are fairly represented, particularly by people who NEED good feedback (they don't sell as many cars as people who sell widgets and rack up 1000s of sales where a neg feedback is meaningless to their average. If you're REAL budget is $10k, you could buy a LeMans for $3-4k and then have $6 to drop in a new engine/tranny/rear end. On eBay, you can set your distance from your zip code to various mileages, and so reduce the number of hits.

If you would be equally happy with any of several models, that increases your options and your chances of finding a good deal. But if you REALLY want a LeMans, you should most definitely get one. Don't get something that doesn't grab you. You'll regret it later if you do.

I did an experiment once: I drove my brother's brand new, top of the line Infinity and paid close attention to how many people "noticed" me. Nada. Then I drove his show-winning 64 T-bird. EVERYONE noticed me. A cool classic car gets FAR more attention these days than even a high-$ late model.

 

Thanks for the great advice. I will check out Ebay. Hopefully something will come along before summertime. I totally agree with you about the high $ late models getting no attention. I have also found that the foreign cars to me have no soul. When I drive a car, I want to feel it and hear it and smell it. I think that there are a lot of people out there like me and I think the foreign car companies don't really get that, or they probably don't want to get it because I am sure I am in the minority anyway. They are selling to the masses of follow the leader off the cliff mind numbing vanilla car drivers in their camry's and accords. How boring! Not that they don't make a solid vehicle, butthey make me yawn when I look at them.
I am not totally stuck ongetting a Lemans but I definately have a preference for them. I am looking for something which parts would be easier to come by than say a AMC or something. Olds and Buickmade some nice cars then.The search is probably going to be part of the fun.Thanks for the help.